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Sasieni question

Discussion in 'Pipes' started by David Emond, Feb 15, 2013.

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  1. David Emond

    David Emond Active Member

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    Hi everyone,

    Quick Sasieni question. The dots, the higher the number of dots the better quality the briar is ?

    Also is Sasieni still producing pipes or what it shut down?
     
  2. Johnny

    Johnny Member

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  3. David Emond

    David Emond Active Member

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    thanks arrggg im at work and those sites are blocked whyyy oh whyyyy hehe
     
  4. furious

    furious Junque collector

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    the more dots generally speaking the better the pipe, and no Sasieni is no longer in production. Four dots came first in the 30s then Eight Dot for the US market right up to WWII. After the war, the two-dot was introduced to market near excellent pipes with a minor flaw or two.
     
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  5. David Emond

    David Emond Active Member

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    So if im looking at a 4 dot then it would be from the 30's ?
     
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  6. Arkie

    Arkie Active Member

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    I've always assumed the Sasieni's number of dots indicated the quality of briar similar to way Brigham designates their pipes. The only Sasieni pipes I've seen for the last several years have been really old estate pipes. Even the e-tailers that have extensive selections don't offer new Sasienis. It seems nearly all the English pipe makers have gone defunct. I'm not sure even new Dunhills are made in England anymore and I suspect Petersons are carved in Italy and finished in Ireland. On a positive note, Balkan Sasieni tobacco is still available and it is great stuff.
     
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  7. furious

    furious Junque collector

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    No, not necessarily. Four-dots were made from the 1930s all the way into the 1980s even after the company was sold. You can tell more from the style of the nomenclature about how old it is. Post some pics and we'll see.
     
  8. dbt13

    dbt13 Sales Account

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    If it says "4 Dot" it is newer. Pipes marked "Four Dot" are the older ones.
     
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  9. David Emond

    David Emond Active Member

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    it says Four dot
    London Made
    Made in England
     
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  10. furious

    furious Junque collector

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    Probably 60s or 70s
     
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  11. David Emond

    David Emond Active Member

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    says family era and dovercourt
     
  12. PipeSimmo

    PipeSimmo Active Member

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    found on http://personal.inet.fi :



    Mainly the "family-made" pipes made between 1919 and 1979 are desirable to collectors.J. Sasieni, the founder worked at Charatan and then moved on to Dunhill and rose to theposition of factory manager. Later he opened up his own factory in 1919.

    According to Steve Smith, J. Sasieni died in 1946 and his son Alfred became the successorto his father's business and the "Four Dot" stamping appeared on the shank. Alfred sold thefirm in 1979 to another firm but stayed as the director for some years.My "Buckingham" is made earliest between 1946 and 1950 because that is when the text"Sasieni" was changed to this simpler, though still script-style stamp of my pipe. The latestpossible time is 1979 because the town names like "Buckingham" were then removed.

    Unluckily this Sasieni was well cleaned only from outside, its shank was mildly said fullof gunk. I had to apply the salt/alcohol treatment and use at least 50 Q-tips and cleanersbefore I was happy. But happy I am, as now this pipe is an excellent proof of the terrificcraftmanship of the "Pre-Transition", family-era of Sasieni. It is a great smoker and verylight-weight pipe, which I am now proud to own.
     
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  13. PipeSimmo

    PipeSimmo Active Member

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    Dating a Sasieni:

    Ironically, the pre-W.W.II pipes are easier to date than the post war pipes, because Joel Sasieni was always fiddling with the details which help to date the pipe. Son Alfred seems to have made some initial changes in the nomenclature after taking over the company in 1946, and been content to leave well enough alone. Sasieni nomenclature changed very little between 1950 and 1979, although the company continued to develop new shapes and finishes.
    To begin with, there are three main elements to dating the Sasieni pipe, the patent number, the style of the name “Sasieni” as it appears on the shank, and the Dots themselves. Naturally, there are exceptions to these rules (this hobby would be boring without them), but for the most part these guidelines apply better than 95% of the time. All Sasieni One, Four, and Eight Dot pipes made before W.W.II carried a patent number on the shank, with 150221/20 stamped on pipes destined for the European Market and 1513428 being stamped on pipes that were to be exported to the U. S. Also, the name “Sasieni” was stamped on the shank in a very florid manner, with the tail of the last “i” sweeping underneath the name forming a shape which has been compared to a fish by more than one collector. This script was discontinued by Alfred almost immediately after he took over the company, due, it believed, to the fact that the original stamps were melted down and contributed to the war effort, so this alone tells you your pipe is pre W.W.II. Underneath in block lettering are the words “London Made”, with the patent number making the third line.
    The dots will help you narrow this down further. As we mentioned, the short lived U. S. market One Dot was introduced around 1920, and was replaced by the early to mid 1920′s by the Four Dot. The 1920′s Four Dot is distinguishable by the florid Sasieni script, a patent number, and four blue dots, which are quite small compared to the pipes of post war years. Furthermore, by 1935 Sasieni began stamping pipes, based on the shape, with their own names, which were usually, but not always, English towns. For example, apples were stamped “Hurlingham”, bulldogs were “Grosvenor” or “Danzey”, and panels were “Lincoln”. One rare and interesting variation of this was the large bent, dubbed “Viscount Lascelles”. Even in this soft Sasieni market, these pipes regularly sell for $150 in their rare appearances in mailers.
    As mentioned above, the Eight Dot appeared in the late 1920′s or early 1930′s. These too have the florid script and the patent number, and the presence or absence of a town name will help you date this pipe fairly precisely. Although the Eight Dot remained in the catalogue through the war, it was for all intents and purposes discontinued during W.W.II.
    Once Alfred took over the company in 1946, these elements changed in fairly rapid succession. The first thing to be changed was the nomenclature itself. In place of the elaborate “Sasieni” stamp of pre war pipes, a simpler, though still script style, “Sasieni” was used. This can be seen on patent pipes which have the small, old style dots.
    Soon after, Sasieni enlarged the dots themselves, and they formed an equilateral rather than an elongated diamond. My pet theory on this is the dots were enlarged to make up for the fact there were no longer eight of them, but I can’t prove it. Finally the patent number was discontinued, and the words “Four Dot” were added. The shank thus read:
    Sasieni
    Four Dot
    London Made.
    Somewhat later still, this was modified to reflect the finish, e.g. Four Dot Walnut, or Four Dot Natural. All these changes seem to have been made in the years between 1946 and 1950. Therefore a pipe with new style dots and old style stamping almost certainly has a replacement stem.
    This system changed little if at all in the ensuing thirty years. When the company was sold in 1979, one of the first things the new owners did was to eliminate the town names from the shanks. The dots were enlarged yet further, and the Sasieni name, though still done in script, was larger, as was the rest of the shank nomenclature, which in all other ways was similar to the Pre-Transition nomenclature. While these pipes are not as collectible as the family made pipes, they were made with care and are high quality.
    The nomenclature changed again in 1986, with the sale of the company to the Post-Transition firm. The three line nomenclature was changed to two lines, with the first reading “Sasieni 4 Dot” and the second identifying the finish, e.g. Natural, Walnut, or Ruff Root. Note how 4 Dot is spelled, using an Arabic numeral 4, as opposed to spelling out the word “four”. This is the easiest way to spot a Post-Transition Sasieni, as the new company has used both script and block lettering to spell the word “Sasieni” on the shank.
     
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  14. David Emond

    David Emond Active Member

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    Thanks for the info Simmo
     
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  15. David Emond

    David Emond Active Member

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  16. Pipe Matt

    Pipe Matt Member

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  17. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer Member

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    Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet! I was under the impression they were not manufactured anymore! Many thanks for the link, PM!
     
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  18. furious

    furious Junque collector

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    That's news to me as well. Glad to know that someone is carrying on the tradition--at least in name anyway.
     
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  19. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff Active Member

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    I picked up a Sasieni yesterday at the NYC show. I just finished the mild restoration, as it was in excellent condition. It turns out that the pipe is stamped "Viscount Lascelles XS", a rare model mentioned in the article quoted above. Either I have a good eye or I got lucky...

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. furious

    furious Junque collector

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    That's a real classic!! Enjoy my friend!
     
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