Which seeds to choose

Discussion in 'Tobacco Growing Forum' started by fred28, Aug 16, 2013.

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  1. fred28

    fred28 Member

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    http://www.heirloomtobacco.com/Seed_Bank.htmlHi,
    I'm willing to grow tobacco so I tried to find seeds on internet (I found many website).
    Soryy, first I leave in Thailand and farmer are growing tobacco in my region but I have to find my own seeds as they grow tobacco for factory and seeds are not available (or they are hybrid).
    Anyway, I'm little bit loose on my choice.
    I will try perique. But I like to have almost all different kind of tobacco (virginia, burley, oriental,
    I 'm not sure where to buy and what to buy. Some website have many different burley and virginia. Also, on this forum, I have read a post from a member saying Virginia and Burley are the same variety but the difference is in the curing process.
    It have many oriental tobacco, dark tobacco, ... what to choose?

    I put a few links so I hope you can help me on my choice.

    http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/SeedlistN.htm#Tobacco
    They have perique. Ok
    They have 6 Burley: difference are on yeld and disease resistance as I understand. Did anyone have an idea on which one to choose? For me, the 6 Burley look like the same.
    They have dark tobacco. Is it good for pipe smoking and which one as they are all good quality tobacco (it's mean nothing for me to help for choosing).
    They have virginia but they are all dark tobacco? I understand it have different virginia color, so I don't understand (like gold virginia).
    What about Orinoco and Shirey?

    http://www.heirloomtobacco.com/Seed_Bank.html
    What do you think about the list of these tobacco?

    http://eastseedfarm.ecrater.co.uk/c/1479715/tobacco-seeds?&perpage=80
    This website have a lot of different seeds but with no information???.

    http://www.newhopeseed.com/tobacco_seeds.html
    Many varieties but no informations for most of them.
    They have 3 different turkish/oriental. did someone have knowledge on these tobacco (I mean about taste for blending)?
    They have many Burley. What is the difference between Burley and Kentucky Burley?
    For thhis website, if you have suggestion for a list of seeds to buy, it will be welcome.

    Finally, http://sustainableseedco.com/tobacco-seeds/ look like to best website for information.
    They have many turkish/oriental. Do you think they have very different aroma for blending? Do you think I have to try them all? I read some post, and some of you are trying or changing varieties each year, isn'it?

    I know I ask a lot, but I really like to grow the right varieties and I think some of tyou have knowledge on some of these tobacco.

    Thanks for help.
    Frederic
     


  2. fred28

    fred28 Member

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    I think ordering the followings:
    Burley 21
    Golden Burley
    Kelly Burley
    Lizard Tail Orinoco
    Shirey
    401 Cherry Red
    Virginia Bright Leaf
    Yellow Pryor
    Bafra
    Izmir-Ozbas
    Perique
    Samsun
    Sherazi
    Smyrna No 23

    What do you think? Is it good choice or do you will change for some other seeds?
    Thanks
     
  3. Malcontent

    Malcontent Active Member

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    Overall, you have a good selection of tobaccos, everything from Orientals to Burleys to Virginias, however, that is a lot of different types with which to start and it could get somewhat confusing. Some of the things that you will have to experiment with are what works best in your climate and soil conditions and how to cure the tobacco once you have harvested. I'm envious. I wish that I had the land and time to try the same thing that you are doing.
     
  4. Summit

    Summit Live Simply.

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    I would narrow down to two or three to start with. A burley, a VA, and something else.
     
  5. fred28

    fred28 Member

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    Thank you for your reply and advice.
    I have enough land to grow about 2000 plants but I will try to grow only about 50 of each varieties (not more than 1000 plants and surely less).

    I'm a new comer with pipes (just bought some and will get in a few days) and we don't really have choice for tobacco (some Borkum Riff, Sir Walter Raleigh and Prince Albert in pouch at 11US$ , a few Peterson at more than 20US$ for a 50gr tin) in Thailand so I have to import it (not doing yet) and it will be complicated and very costly. I was looking for Orlik golden sliced, Stokkebye Bullseye Flake, McClelland Frog Morton and some other tobacco to try but importing not more than 250gr at a time won't do it for long time.

    Anyway, my thinking is based on trying to see which kind of tobacco will grow or not, so with all different varieties (Virginia, Burley, ...), maybe, 1 or 2 won't grow.
    Regarding curing, I have a barn (used before to keep rice) and I believe it will be ok with some fan and maybe water atomizer. I don't think it's a big deal to do it.
    Fermenting is another thing and I understand, it is more complex and it have different way to do it (normal fermenting, Perique, Latakia, Cavendish). I'm really exciting to try these process and see what is the result. I do a kind of things like that for the vanilla process ( I have a vanilla plantation ) but in a different way. The vanilla have to sweet first (a kind of fermenting process) then dry.
    For the Burley, I understand some pipe smokers like aromatic blends. As I have a soap and cosmetic factory, I know aromatic material (natural and synthetic) and all other stuff used by tobacco makers. So, I'm not willing to smoke aromatics (just for try to see what it is will be ok) but I believe that it will be possible to produce natural aromatized tobacco. My big concern is on propylene glycol, some synthetic aroma and perservative.

    Regarding the Virginia, Burley and maybe Oriental, you suggest to adjust done the number of varieties. I was thinking to find 1 or 2 more Virginia, Lol! Ok, you will understand with my question why so many different strains.

    On Virginia:
    I understand it have clear to dark Virginia (gold, orange, dark, black, ... ) and some tobacco makers are mixing some different Virginia to produce Virginia tobacco smoking blend. So, for the different color: It is different Virginia strain or it is different curing/fermenting process? I'm confused about that. Can you explain to me?

    On Burley and Virginia:
    To produce Cavendish, I read that Virginia, Burley or Kentucky are used. If it's so, you will finish with very different Cavendish, isn't it? Do you know also, which varieties are doing best for Cavendish processing?

    On Oriental: Which Oriental strain is more valuable for producing Latakia, do you think?

    Thanks again for the help.
     
  6. Malcontent

    Malcontent Active Member

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    I think that all of the different varieties that you have chosen will grow in Thailand with proper soil treatment. The difficulty will be finding which ones require a lot of work to get them to grow and which do not. That knowledge will only come with time and after a few seasons of harvest. Unless there is someone with experience that you can consult with, you will have to engage in a lot of trial, error and experimentation to learn how to grow tobacco there. I would suggest that you look for books, both online and paper copies, that deal with tobacco growing. Your questions have complex answers and greatly exceed my ability to answer.
     
  7. fred28

    fred28 Member

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    Thank you very much for your concern. It's very appreciated.
    Farmer are growing tobacco for big company not far from my place and I will go to visit them for some knowledge.
    People here (farmers) are very friendly and they will share their experience.
    As soon as I will get informations, I will post pictures and info from tobacco plantation here in Thailand.
    I believe also that the climate is favorable but not at this moment, it's the rainy season. I have to wait for mid-november so have to get the seeds for september.
    Thank you again
     
  8. fred28

    fred28 Member

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  9. Malcontent

    Malcontent Active Member

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    I've never heard of them. Based on the website quality, it looks like someone's personal hobby, as opposed to a commercial venture. If the owner is sick or busy with something else, they may not be paying attention to the website. Email failure may be due to his/her inbox being too full or they may have just let the project die. I would recommend that you work with the seed companies that you listed at the top of the thread.
     
  10. nesta

    nesta Well-Known Member

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    Just as with grapes, tea, or coffee, the soil and climate will make a major impact on what you grow. In other words, the geographical differences (more specifically soil nutrient profile, moisture, photoperiod, heat, etc.) will cause otherwise identical plants to produce very different end products. This is one major reason the United States primarily relies upon imported cigars for the cigar market: we can't grow cigar tobaccos which taste as good as those grown in Latin America, generally speaking. Even domestic cigar production generally uses imported leaf. This is also why cigars made from tobacco grown outside of Cuba from Cuban seed stock do not taste the same as actual Cuban cigars.

    So unless you know tobacco farmers in your area and know what they grow successfully, you might have a tough time knowing what to expect. Oriental tobaccos are typically Virginia varieties if I'm not mistaken, and much of the flavor results from where they are grown. I could be wrong on that, but I don't think it's likely you'll get Oriental seeds to produce exactly the same flavor as the "genuine" article. That's not to say they'll taste bad, you just probably won't have a good way of knowing what it will be like. Virginia grown in Africa is a good bit more robust than American grown Virginia.

    I don't think we can tell you what can be expected to grow well AND produce good tobacco, so maybe the first season you're trying this you ought to just try a little of this and a little of that, and see what results you get. For what it's worth, I really like Peterson's Irish Oak, and I know that it incorporates some Thai burley leaf, so there's a good chance you could have some success growing good burley. If I were in your shoes, I'd mostly plant some burleys and Virginia.

    Perique is an interesting tobacco, but most of its flavor comes from it's processing, using very labor intensive and specialized procedures, and even growing tobacco from perique seeds, that is one (along with latakia) which simply won't give you an end product similar to what you think of when you think of perique or latakia. Again, that does not mean that they wouldn't produce good tasting tobacco!
     
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